| rdfs:comment | - Content fork, article for the party already exists on this page National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development EllsworthSK (talk) 21:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
* Keep. These are different parties. The National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development was founded in November 2011, while the formation of Hizb El Watan was announced on April 16, 2012 (Umar Khan(April 10, 2012).Three-day event in Tripoli to announce "Nation Party".). --Lambiam 02:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC) They are still one and the same party, the name is same as well and so is membership including the leading figure, just one is in arabic and other in english. November 2011 was date when party formation was announced and April 2012 is when it was registered and established. EllsworthSK (talk) 10:52, 19 June 201
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| abstract | - Content fork, article for the party already exists on this page National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development EllsworthSK (talk) 21:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
* Keep. These are different parties. The National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development was founded in November 2011, while the formation of Hizb El Watan was announced on April 16, 2012 (Umar Khan(April 10, 2012).Three-day event in Tripoli to announce "Nation Party".). --Lambiam 02:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC) They are still one and the same party, the name is same as well and so is membership including the leading figure, just one is in arabic and other in english. November 2011 was date when party formation was announced and April 2012 is when it was registered and established. EllsworthSK (talk) 10:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
* Keep. I have searched the web to find any documentation that these two parties are one in the same, and could find none. Unless Ellsworth can come up with more than a personal undocumented opinion, namely unless he can provide some kind convincing documentation, I can see no reason to delete this article simply because of one contributor's undocumented opinion. Also, I was able to find numerous references to the "Hizb El-Watan ..." party, but scarce few to the "National Gathering...." party. If they are the same party, perhaps the "National Gathering..." article should be deleted and not the "El-Watan article. Scott P. (talk) 20:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC) Really? The exactly same name of the leader did not give you any indication? The exactly same candidacy is also a coincidence? Or does al-Salabi have now two parties, because that is how he rolls? If I had to guess National gathering was just as name suggests, gathering, the foundation of political party which resulted in establishment of Wattan Party (). So here is the deal, delete this article and move the second one into Homeland Party (Libya) as the names of the political parties should be primarily in English language. EllsworthSK (talk) 21:56, 19 June 2012 (UTC) After spending another hour trying to find an "in-depth" analysis of the relationship between the Hizb Al Watan (Libya) party and the "National Gathering...(NGFJD)" party, this is what I've found. I must make an educated guess here, because I was unable to find anyone who spoke with clear authority on this question. It appears that EllsworthSK is probably mostly right, and that Hizb Al Watan is probably a reformulated version of the old NGFJD party. Over the last 6 months, references to the NGFJD party have dried up, and seem to have been replaced with references to the Hizb Al Watan party. It is somewhat frustrating since there doesn't seem to be much in-depth news coverage on this topic. Still, even if our theory is correct, it remains only an undocumented theory of contributors. Until a journalist writes a news article that clears this all up, we remain here stuck only being allowed to write articles that are supported by the available documentation. So I would hope that you might not delete or create any articles related to this question until such moves can be supported with actual independent and reliable documentation. Documentation rules. Thanks. Scott P. (talk) 15:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
* Comment. I had hoped the Arabic Wikipedia might clarify this, but their disambiguation page for Hizb El Watan (ar:حزب الوطن) has a red link for the Libyan party, and no article on the other one either. I further note that a user's page on the Arabic Wikipedia with (apparently) a list of needed articles (ar:مستخدم:عبد المؤمن/مسودات) lists both parties separately (as red links). --Lambiam 21:07, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
* Comment 2. Is it possible that the new party is effectively a merger between the National Gathering and the Libyan Islamic Movement for Change, which appear to have co-existed as distinct organizations for some time? --Lambiam 21:48, 19 June 2012 (UTC) Doubtful, AbdeulHakim Belhaj is long-time ally of Ali al-Sallabi and he announced that he will form political party with him shortly after the fall of Sirte and death of Gaddafi. Also LIMC is not part of this party, for example Sami al-Saadi, one of the commander of LIFG, is candidating for Umma party [1] EllsworthSK (talk) 22:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC) But for example here, here and here we find Belhadj speaking for the LIMC, even using the first-person pronoun "we". Apparently, al-Saadi did not follow Belhadj in his choice for Hizb El Watan, but I don't see how this fact allows drawing further conclusions about the relationship between LIMC and Hizb El Watan. --Lambiam 14:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
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