| abstract | - Future!Hiro determines that the pivotal change in history that he needs to make to prevent NYC from being destroyed is to tell Peter "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World!" - because it was Claire's regenerative abilities that allowed Sylar to survive his katana wound and still explode. He goes back to his own time and discovers that that wasn't sufficient, because -Peter- exploded instead. But then he doesn't change it any further - instead, Present!Hiro goes to that timeline, and sees everything. Which means the only difference from that timeline and the show's is that Hiro went to that timeline and saw that future. So how did -that- cause the one difference that prevented that future, ie, Nathan growing a conscience and flying in to save the day? I guess he -did- go up to Nathan and call him a very bad man... that's pretty weak, but I guess it could have planted a seed of doubt.... meh. It still Just Bugs Me as a plot point.
* Peter was exploding rather than Sylar. Nathan, being a reasonably one-dimensional character who is generally apethetic, nonetheless cares about family (because everyone does in TV) so he was moved into action he wouldn't have been moved into for a stranger, even with New York (and therefore his family) in danger. Also, if Nathan had picked up Sylar he wouldn't have survived because Sylar can't fly
* Well, there you have it. "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World." Nathan never met Claire in that universe because Claire was dead. Meeting Claire was the reason he and his mother grew tiny little slivers of conscience. That's logical, yes? Hiro convinces Peter to save Claire, Claire convinces Nathan to stop the 'bomb'. First season Heroes, if you think about it, generally does make some kind of sense.
* I believe that the idea is that because he jumped into the future, Hiro wasn't at Kirby Plaza in the time just before the explosion, and he wasn't able to stab Sylar. I imagine that Sylar, not being badly wounded, was able to prevent Nathan from flying Peter off. Thus, the explosion happened at ground level and destroyed NYC.
* I'm not sure Hiro's time travel works that way, but either way, Sylar was still alive in that timeline and would have been killed by the explosion if that was the case. But also: given where they were when the bomb went off, how did Sylar acquire Candace and DL's abilities in that timeline? I think this is a case of time travel being treated as a way to present a What If more than a logical extrapolation of events, which could be a trope of its own (I'm looking at you, Ultimate Fantastic Four).
* I've heard people speculate that Hiro caused the explosion to happen sooner when he attacked Sylar at his mom's house. Had he not done that, Sylar would have spent several hours crying over his mom's death rather than immediately starting on his plan to cause the explosion. So, in the FYG timeline, maybe the explosion happened after DL and Candace were away from Kirby Plaza (as seen in the second episode, it did initially happen in the daytime). As for Sylar surviving, well, * fan wanks* he has moved extremely fast a few times (for instance, 7 Minutes to Midnight where he got out of the Burnt Toast Diner seconds after killing Charlie, or the first season finale where he quickly moved behind Peter from some hidden location). Maybe he was able to use whatever ability that was to get to a safe location.
* Oooh good points! I'd forgotten they showed the original explosion happening in the daytime! My JBM has been quelled... although I am still a little curious about the exact details of the "original" series of events (on a related note: so pissed off at how every time it looks like the Elder Heroes are going to start talking about what specifically their "sins" are, they get evasive and don't mention any specifics beyond the plague...justifiably evasive, perhaps, but still!). And yeah, he unexpectedly appears/disappears -quite- a few times - I'm inclined to think he has short-range teleportation, m'self. Maybe Offscreen Teleportation as a superpower, even.
* Personally, I think that it's more a form of superspeed, as he never teleported out of his cell at Primatech and when he pulled that dissapearing trick to get out of the Bennet house in Distractions, we saw the door fly open.
* I think it's either a case of a camouflage power (Sylar stays invisible as long as he doesn't move) or some sort of subtle mind control that makes people's minds ignore him, like a suggestion "nothing to see here". I've found at least five cases of Sylar disappearing or appearing out of nowhere: most notably when Bennet entered Sylar's empty concrete cell at Primatech in the first season and suddenly Sylar stood behind him, then when Peter entered Mohinder's apartment and found Mohinder on the ceiling, and finally when Sylar suddenly appeared in Kirby Plaza and tapped Bennet on the shoulder from behind, and we had previously seen the Plaza from above and it completely empty save for Bennet and Peter. Also the scene when Elle runs after the wounded Sylar in season 2 and loses him although he staggered off down the hallway only seconds ago. Something similar happens when Bennet shoots at Sylar in Bennet's house, Sylar runs off and Bennet orders the Haitian to find him, but the Haitian comes back only seconds later and reports that Sylar is gone without a trace. Perhaps the Haitian should have activated his power dampening field...
* Um, when Elle ran after a wounded Sylar, his powers were still being suppressed by the virus. And I still think it is some sort of ability to move very fast. He mainly uses it to appear or disappear, but there was a scene in Homecoming where Sylar was at the bottom of the stairs, then it cut away for a second or two, and when it cut back he was on the top of the stairs right next to Peter. As for Distractions, it appears that the Haitian's power dampening field is always on unless he purposely decides to exclude someone from it, so I find it much more plausible that Sylar was able to get away really quickly, and he did seem to get out of the house faster than a normal person could. And besides, a camouflage power wouldn't have helped him to survive the explosion at all, which is what this whole discussion is about.
* "...when Elle ran after a wounded Sylar, his powers were still being suppressed by the virus." Whoops, you're right. But then he wouldn't have been able to move with superspeed either. Still, I stand by my impression that Sylar has a camouflage power. There was nowhere to hide in that cell at Primatech, nor at Kirby Plaza. Peter even remarked on how Sylar seems to be able to "hide in plain sight" in that episode. That's IMO far creepier an ability than superspeed... besides Sylar may still gain superspeed a lá The Flash in Volume 3 because one of the new villains in the trailer for Volume 3 which was recently shown at Jules Vernes Heroes convention in France apparently has superspeed powers, and there's rumors Sylar will be snacking on a couple of them while at the Company prison. - As for how Sylar survived the explosion in the original timeline, that was the timeline when he had Claire's regenerative powers; no need for fanwanking how he could have gotten away, he didn't need to.
* No, I'm talking about the timeline seen in the episode Five Years Gone, where Peter saved Claire but he ended up exploding. Sylar didn't have regenerative powers at that point in that timeline (not that they would have done him any good that close to the explosion), so, yes, it is necessary to fanwank how he got away. As for hiding in his cell, HRG thought that Sylar was under the sheet on the table in the middle of the room, so if Sylar had crouched down below the window, or even used telekinesis to pin himself onto the ceiling, HRG probably wouldn't have noticed at first. Sure, we had an overhead shot of Kirby Plaza where we didn't see Sylar, but he could have been hiding behind a pillar or a fountain or something, then zipped behind Peter when his back was turned. Yes, Peter said that he thought Sylar was hiding in plain sight, but since when does Peter know anything about Sylar's powers? In the episode .07%, Peter turned invisible and Sylar said, "Interesting. I can't wait to try that one." That'd be a rather odd thing for him to say if he had a power that basically did the same thing. And, again, a camouflage power can't explain how he got up the steps so fast in Homecoming.
* Future Peter admits to being the one who exploded NYC, not Syler. If Syler wasn't stabed, he would have prevented Nathin from flying Peter off to a safe distance. This still doesn't explain how all the heros besides Peter and Clair would have survived the blast however. Chock one up for Plot Armor, or maybe Hiro's teleportation.
* Please read through the discussion above. All of that has been explained.
* It was thought that Claire being alive would mean that Sylar didn't have regeneration powers. But actually, Claire being alive meant that she was around to guilt Nathan into saving Peter. That was the change that saved New York.
* Except she was also alive in the FYG timeline, and Peter still exploded then. Hiro stabbing Sylar was the most important change (and it's not like they couldn't have just killed Peter or something if Nathan hadn't showed up).
* This troper missed a lot of "Five Years Gone", but at what point did Sylar kill Nathan in the FYG timeline? Because if Sylar had killed Nathan pre-explosion in the FYG timeline, Sylar could've flown away, and with no Nathan, there would be no Nathan to save Peter. Therefore, Peter would've exploded at Ground Zero, and Sylar, later killing Candace, would've been able to masquerade as Nathan at the Ground Zero memorial.
*
* Regarding the whole 'How did Sylar survive the blast?' thing, I think that those who have Ted's nuclear capabilities are therefore immune to them. Nobody knew what would happen to Ted if he exploded, if he would die or simply brush some dust off his shoulder and carry on. Since Peter was the one who exploded AND he has the power to regenerate it was definite that he would live anyway. Sylar killing Ted and stealing his ability could therefore have made him invunerable to the explosion. Plus there's that whole cockroach theme [you never know what Sylar has up his sleeve].
* The Heroes web-comics String Theory shows how Future Hiro did stab Sylar and Sylar regenerated, explaining how he went on to figure out how it was Claire who gave Sylar that power and how he concluded that stopping Sylar from gaining that power would prevent the Dark Future of Five Years Gone from happening.
* The key to this whole thing goes back to Isaac. When Sylar found him, he had painted multiple paintings showing himself dying at Sylar's hands. This suggested that Isaac was trying to find a future path where he didn't die at Sylar's hands or at least one where his death would result in a moral victory. It was confirmed later, at the very start of the final episode of Season One, after Sylar killed Isaac and took his power and tried painting the future for himself that Sylar had a vision of himself exploding and destroying New York. Horrified that he might take innocent lives, he called Mohinder to ask for help but hung up when he realized Mohinder was trying to call the police on the other line. Sylar later, during the fight with Peter, admitted that he manipulated events so that Peter would be the one to lose control and go nuclear... How he did this isn't clear... unless you account for the idea that Isaac's power allowed him to consider multiple possible futures and figure out how to bring one particular path about. This would neatly undo any guess-work that Future Hiro did about stopping Sylar from exploding although it wouldn't stop Hiro from being able to kill Sylar with a sword.
* Sylar had a vision of someone exploding in New York. He simply assumed it was himself, because just previously he had painted himself stealing Ted's power (the man with the glowing hands). Peter had a vision of himself exploding, while Sylar merely saw someone explode in the future and jumped to conclusions. A theme of Season 1 was that you should beware of visions and prophecies, because they never turn out quite as you expected and are prone to misinterpretation (a theme common in Greek legends, too). The writers repeated this pattern in Season 2 with the painting of Bennet getting shot in the head, and Claire apparently happily embracing someone in the background, so Bennet jumped to conclusions and forbade Claire to date West... only it turned out things happened exactly as shown, but events unfolded completely differently than Bennet had thought.
* Except that - as mentioned above - Future Hiro specifically stabbed Sylar, who healed, and then exploded in the original Dark Future. So there was obviously some point where Sylar POTENTIALLY could have become the bomb.
* I think I can explain this and make it real simple. We know from the comics that in the original alternate future, Hiro worked with Peter and Noah to undermine the American Government's interment programs. Future Hiro figured out from talking to Noah that Sylar had taken Claire's power and that was what made Sylar heal when Hiro tried to kill him (the comics outright show Hiro stabbing Sylar and then say that Sylar exploded). He also knew that Peter - by virtue of sharing Hiro's powers - would have the same Ripple-Effect-Proof Memory, whichwould allow Hiro to go to a point where before he met Peter "for the first time" and tell him something vague enough to change the future without risking a rift.
* Apart from the fact that Claire survives the attack by Sylar, Future Hiro's trip changes the entire course of the present and (eventually) the Future depicted in Five Years Gone with several major details being changed. Without Future Hiro giving Peter the encouragement he needed to go back to Isaac, Peter may well have given up on talking to Mohinder and Isaac at that point. This would - in turn - have kept Peter from being there to pick up the phone calls from Hiro that Isaac was ignoring
* (Hiro and Isaac probably would have joined up, what with Hiro and Ando trying to get to NYC, but this sped things up a bit)
* This indirectly caused Eden (who was watching Mohinder) to take a serious interest in Peter's story, which lead to Isaac getting cleaned up and eventually getting control of his power
* Remember - in the original second episode - Isaac was still scruffy and unshaven when Hiro found his body as opposed to his clean-cut self during his eventual, actual death.
* This also - indirectly - put Ted on a path to meeting Peter and Peter absorbing his power, thus risking becoming a human bomb.
* If Peter hadn't saved Claire, he wouldn't have been arrested on suspicion of Jackie Wilcox's murder. If it hadn't been for Matt interviewing Peter while he was being held, Matt never would have gotten the idea to interview Claire and Noah and become suspicious about what Primatech Paper is hiding. If it hadn't been for Matt's botched raid on Primatech, he never would have lost out on his new FBI job. And if it hadn't been for that, Matt never would have taken Ted and Hana seriously when they approached him about going after Bennet directly. Which - even ignoring that without Claire to protect Bennet never would have had a reason to go on the run from The Company in the first place - means that Matt, Ted and Bennet would never have fled to New York together.
* Of course this does nothing to answer the question of just how Sylar found Ted in the original alternate future so he could have the nuclear bomb power... but it still holds up pretty well as an explanation for how Future Hiro indirectly did stop Sylar from becoming the bomb but changed things so that Peter became the bomb instead.
* How is it that Sylar "regenerated", if he doesn't kill Claire until five years after the bomb? Wait... Perhaps Future!Hiro's meddling in the subway change his future slightly, so that Claire survived, but Peter went off instead of Sylar, because present Hiro was out of the timeline due to his five-year time-jump, (Like in Episode 2, where Ando said that Hiro had been gone for weeks) and was therefore not there to stab Sylar or guilt Nathan. Wait... if that's the case, and present Hiro is displaed from the timeline, then how is Future!Hiro still there? Shouldn't he also be gone, since Present Hiro is time-jumped? Maybe Future!Hiro has Time Traveller's Immunity, like in Chrono Trigger, and therefore isn't effected by his own time-travelling (Hiro would certainly appreciate the parallel)? Maybe that's why he's still there, and still remembers Sylar regenerating and blowing up? I... I think I need to lie down...
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